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9:18 am August 3, 2009
| liveforever
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| posts 37 |
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I posted on another thread, although it does look like all hope is lost, I find it highly suspicious that the life insurance would pay out so quickly. The insurance companies are known to drag their feet, and they always want to make sure that there is nothing in there that could let them off the hook and not pay. Why would they pay so fast?? Strange, my medical insurance comp takes much longer to reimburse my doctor visits. So dos my auto insurance, they mak you jump through hoops before they pay. Just wondering, but then again, I am kind of down because of it too…
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9:20 am August 3, 2009
| MJbeliever
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i really hope this isn't true . i was feeling so happy and up-lifted after reading Keisha's post…this is a bit of a let down…if it turns out to be true , boy imma be bummed .
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9:23 am August 3, 2009
| Thetruth
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here is what I found from Internet:
Upon the insured's death, the insurer requires acceptable proof of death before it pays the claim. The normal minimum proof required is a death certificate and the insurer's claim form completed, signed (and typically notarized).[citation needed] If the insured's death is suspicious and the policy amount is large, the insurer may investigate the circumstances surrounding the death before deciding whether it has an obligation to pay the claim.
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Love you Michael from the bottom of my heart! |
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9:26 am August 3, 2009
| MJbeliever
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Thetruth said:
here is what I found from Internet:
Upon the insured's death, the insurer requires acceptable proof of death before it pays the claim. The normal minimum proof required is a death certificate and the insurer's claim form completed, signed (and typically notarized).[citation needed] If the insured's death is suspicious and the policy amount is large, the insurer may investigate the circumstances surrounding the death before deciding whether it has an obligation to pay the claim.
thanks 4 that . but that still doesn't tell us if that article is true or not .
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9:27 am August 3, 2009
| MJbeliever
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Thetruth said:
here is what I found from Internet:
Upon the insured's death, the insurer requires acceptable proof of death before it pays the claim. The normal minimum proof required is a death certificate and the insurer's claim form completed, signed (and typically notarized).[citation needed] If the insured's death is suspicious and the policy amount is large, the insurer may investigate the circumstances surrounding the death before deciding whether it has an obligation to pay the claim.
thanks 4 that . but that still doesn't tell us if that article is true or not .
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9:27 am August 3, 2009
| Queen
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| posts 31 |
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Perhaps you can check out this as well from appr. 7:30min on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..xz20BJBsKA
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9:29 am August 3, 2009
| Wonderer
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liveforever said:
I posted on another thread, although it does look like all hope is lost, I find it highly suspicious that the life insurance would pay out so quickly. The insurance companies are known to drag their feet, and they always want to make sure that there is nothing in there that could let them off the hook and not pay. Why would they pay so fast?? Strange, my medical insurance comp takes much longer to reimburse my doctor visits. So dos my auto insurance, they mak you jump through hoops before they pay. Just wondering, but then again, I am kind of down because of it too…
Actually, when my father-in-law and later my father passed away, their life insurance claims were settled and paid within days. I think a valid death certificate is a no-brainer for insurance companies which are nototrius for making mountains out of molehills. Given that, they waited over a month before paying-out to MJ's estate and they probably did investigate it somewhat. I'm sure the polices on his life were big! This is feeling like he really is gone, I'm sad to say.
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Professional fence-rider.
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9:30 am August 3, 2009
| MJbeliever
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Thetruth said:
here is what I found from Internet:
Upon the insured's death, the insurer requires acceptable proof of death before it pays the claim. The normal minimum proof required is a death certificate and the insurer's claim form completed, signed (and typically notarized).[citation needed] If the insured's death is suspicious and the policy amount is large, the insurer may investigate the circumstances surrounding the death before deciding whether it has an obligation to pay the claim.
thanks 4 that . but that still doesn't tell us if that article is true or not .
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9:31 am August 3, 2009
| jewell
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Post edited 2:58 am – August 4, 2009 by jewell
Thetruth said:
here is what I found from Internet:
Upon the insured's death, the insurer requires acceptable proof of death before it pays the claim. The normal minimum proof required is a death certificate and the insurer's claim form completed, signed (and typically notarized).[citation needed]If the insured's death is suspicious and the policy amount is large, the insurer may investigate the circumstances surrounding the death before deciding whether it has an obligation to pay the claim.
Well, I think that the Death certificate was enough proof for them…
a suspicious death to the insurance company means someone could be faking their death to collect insurance money…
and it very common… and very illegal….so they investigate those claims….
they obviously didn't think that this was the case here.
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To find the truth…
I like to play
Devil’s Advocate…
Please don’t let that
upset you! |
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9:32 am August 3, 2009
| lou
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Post edited 2:34 am – August 4, 2009 by lou
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9:36 am August 3, 2009
| The Truth
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Post edited 2:39 am – August 4, 2009 by The Truth
Thetruth said:
here is what I found from Internet:
…….If the insured's death is suspicious and the policy amount is large, the insurer may investigate the circumstances surrounding the death before deciding whether it has an obligation to pay the claim.
Aha. Keeping in mind that criminal investigation is still ongoing. This case is far from closed. How can an insurance company pay out if the investigation is still ongoing? Isn't that why “deferred” was on the death certificate to begin with…to determine the cause of death…for insurance purposes? I find it very hard to believe that an insurance company will pay out just because it says “deferred” on the death certificate.
Or, as I said earlier, the cause of death HAS been determined…and the fed investigation is all for show.
Someone is lying.
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9:37 am August 3, 2009
| mir26
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| posts 226 |
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there was also the case that if MJ did this to himself an insurance will not pay out,so they already know something or it is BS,for now I still call BS until I have real proof period.a news article to me isent proof it stays media.
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dont believe everything you see or read |
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10:00 am August 3, 2009
| mir26
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| | holland |
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| posts 226 |
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and another person who claims lifeinsurance for MJ would be difficult because of how he died
,so its not as simple as it sounds.
Sirkin, who was the CBS2/KCAL9 expert on the death of Anna Nicole Smith and the guardianship of her child, and a media expert regarding the Conservatorship of Britney Spears, says it is likely that the nomination of guardian by Michael Jackson relating to the two children he had with his ex-wife, Debbie Rowe may fail because the court did not make the special findings necessary to terminate her paternal rights. Therefore, under California law, Rowe as the mother of those two children will have priority over any nominated “guardian of the person” by Michael Jackson. However, Debbie can't expect the same results when it comes to guardianship of the estate of the minors.
The Jackson case is a perfect example of when guardianship nominations can go bad. Parents who name guardians of the person who were married to the parent of the minors can't expect their intended results, unless the other parent has actually consented to the nomination in writing in California.
Surrogate parents also have special rights in California which if not terminated by the court will remain in tact for the surrogate parent. At this point, it is unclear whether or not any court has terminated the surrogate's rights.
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Any and all of Jackson's life insurances are at risk at this point, even if he created irrevocable life insurance trusts for his minor kids naming those children as beneficiaries. Sirkin continues to say that large policies are subject to many exclusions and the facts of death of Jackson, along with the coroner's findings, will greatly impact whether those insurance will be paid. ———————————————————————————————-
Unfortunately, even the best intended plans in insurance and creditor planning are tied to a very small wire, called the policy and the application. Sirkin suspects the concert promoters will be more interested in the insurance results than even Michael's children or estate.
Mina N. Sirkin is a Family Wealth Attorney in Los Angeles, CA. Ms. Sirkin is a Certified Specialist Attorney in Estate Planning, Probate and Trust Law by the State Bar of California. She was the legal expert for CBS's PrimeTime News, NY Times, MSNBC, and USWeekly.
http://www.SirkinLaw.com
SOURCE Sirkin & Sirkin
Mina N. Sirkin, +1-818-438-7170
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dont believe everything you see or read |
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10:18 am August 3, 2009
| jewell
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that above article was written on june 27th… 2 days after the death….
I believe that things have progressed in the case since she wrote that article.
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To find the truth…
I like to play
Devil’s Advocate…
Please don’t let that
upset you! |
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10:19 am August 3, 2009
| jewell
Member
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| posts 460 |
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mir26 said:
there was also the case that if MJ did this to himself an insurance will not pay out,so they already know something or it is BS,for now I still call BS until I have real proof period.a news article to me isent proof it stays media.
Insurance will pay in the event of a sucide… they will ususally have a 2 year clause though
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To find the truth…
I like to play
Devil’s Advocate…
Please don’t let that
upset you! |
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10:27 am August 3, 2009
| bittyditty
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| posts 53 |
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Hi
I find it very hard to believe that the insurers would have paid out monies unless a full investigation of his 'death' had been resolved. Life insurance doesn't normally cover for suicide etc. I am not saying i think MIchael took his own life though. What i am saying is that, as far as we know, there has been no conclusion to his death. Therefore suicide can't be ruled out.
I feel sure this is monies from MIchael's existing estate, therefore not illegal.
Very interesting video about Elvis. Could be a possiblity.
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Speechless, speechless, that’s how you make me feel. – Michael J Jackson
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10:30 am August 3, 2009
| mir26
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| posts 226 |
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jewell said:
mir26 said:
there was also the case that if MJ did this to himself an insurance will not pay out,so they already know something or it is BS,for now I still call BS until I have real proof period.a news article to me isent proof it stays media.
Insurance will pay in the event of a sucide… they will ususally have a 2 year clause though
hey jewel yes i know that one but what i ment was if Michael cause his dead himself by taking drugs,he could have known that drugs could kill him and just took the risk then a company isent gonna pay,cause he did it to himself,so either way they are not telling us something or it is BS i am still not trusting this news,not your fault Hun i know you mean it in the right wayits just a gut feeling that wont go away. trust me I have delt with Michael,s dead its not that I dont want to know,but something is just nagging me in this case that says to me something is up
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dont believe everything you see or read |
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10:35 am August 3, 2009
| jewell
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Post edited 3:55 am – August 4, 2009 by jewell
bittyditty said:
Hi
I find it very hard to believe that the insurers would have paid out monies unless a full investigation of his 'death' had been resolved. Life insurance doesn't normally cover for suicide etc. I am not saying i think MIchael took his own life though. What i am saying is that, as far as we know, there has been no conclusion to his death. Therefore suicide can't be ruled out.
I feel sure this is monies from MIchael's existing estate, therefore not illegal.
Very interesting video about Elvis. Could be a possiblity.
There is usually a 2 year suicide clause….
So they don't care if he committed suicide or not…
as long as it was 2 years after this policy was taken out , they will pay.
I would asssume that he took these policies out many years ago….
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To find the truth…
I like to play
Devil’s Advocate…
Please don’t let that
upset you! |
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11:12 am August 3, 2009
| Annieisnotokey
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Post edited 4:24 am – August 4, 2009 by Annieisnotokey
What I find strange (I'm not saying it's true or not and I'm not saying MJ is alive or dead, I'm just saying it is strange) is that the insurance company would payout so fast (yes, a little over a month is fast).
From what I've been reading, the insurance company can contest cause of death and request additional information before paying. I assume that MJ's policy was for several million dollars, so it's strange that the insurance company would just take the DC at face value and decide to pay out. Not because they HAVE to suspect foul play or hoax, but because it would be expected from them to do some kind of investigation before paying several millions of dollars.
Insurance companies, as any financial company, are there to make money. If they can delay a multimillion dollar payment for several months I find it hard to believe that they suddenly grew a concious and decided to payout, no questions asked.
That's all I'm saying.
Plz, don't shoot me, Jewell. I'm a very sensitive person. LOL
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The beauty of conspiracy theories is that the more they try to talk you out of it, the more they reinforce the idea of conspiracy. |
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11:15 am August 3, 2009
| roxy101
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I'm so confused.
Is the hoax theory over ?
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Keep The Faith, Baby, Yea
Because It’s Just
A Matter Of Time
Before Your Confidence Will Win Out
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11:25 am August 3, 2009
| wilkesxgurl
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| posts 173 |
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so am i confussed please somebody shine some light here
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12:11 pm August 3, 2009
| melluvsmike25
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| | Shelbyville TN |
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| posts 48 |
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Jewell
The judge just admitted Jackson's 2002 will into probate.
That just happened in court. What does that mean?
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12:12 pm August 3, 2009
| jewell
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| posts 460 |
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Post edited 5:59 am – August 4, 2009 by jewell
Annieisnotokey said:
Post edited 4:24 am – August 4, 2009 by Annieisnotokey
What I find strange (I'm not saying it's true or not and I'm not saying MJ is alive or dead, I'm just saying it is strange) is that the insurance company would payout so fast (yes, a little over a month is fast).
From what I've been reading, the insurance company can contest cause of death and request additional information before paying. I assume that MJ's policy was for several million dollars, so it's strange that the insurance company would just take the DC at face value and decide to pay out. Not because they HAVE to suspect foul play or hoax, but because it would be expected from them to do some kind of investigation before paying several millions of dollars.
Insurance companies, as any financial company, are there to make money. If they can delay a multimillion dollar payment for several months I find it hard to believe that they suddenly grew a concious and decided to payout, no questions asked.
That's all I'm saying.
Plz, don't shoot me, Jewell. I'm a very sensitive person. LOL
awww… i wouldn't shoot you annie!
I do know that most insurance policies pay within 2-4 weeks , 90 days at most….
They don't care if it is a murder, or suicide (as long is the suicide is after the waver time, usually 2 years)
The only exception is if they think that the person is faking their death to collect the money,
example would be if there was no body, that will delay payment sometime up to 5 years….
or if the benefactor (the person who gets the money) was suspected of murdering the insured individual
These would be “suspicious deaths” and payment would be delayed.
All most insurance companies want is the Death Certificate, and sometimes they want it notarized, which they may have had done….
and they have to pay out and cannot delay it …
There are laws in place that protect both the insured individual and the insurance company…
but the insurance company is required by law to pay within a reasonable time…
And many insurance companies don't pay in one lump sum….
I don't know what the case is here…
but sometimes you will receive a monthly or quarterly check….
Unfortunately i know too much about life insurance after losing my dad and grandmother…
i also have a few polices on my husband and I….
it is very comforting to have!
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To find the truth…
I like to play
Devil’s Advocate…
Please don’t let that
upset you! |
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12:26 pm August 3, 2009
| jewell
Member
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| posts 460 |
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Post edited 5:42 am – August 4, 2009 by jewell
melluvsmike25 said:
Jewell
The judge just admitted Jackson's 2002 will into probate.
That just happened in court. What does that mean?
Yes, probate is normal for many wills…
my dads will went into probate because none of us kids were on his checking accounts, etc…
so they file it in probate ….
then the estate executors will pay the bills sell any property and give everyone their money.
http://research.lawyers.com/as…..-5678.html
http://www.wa-probate.com/Inst…..te-FAQ.htm
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To find the truth…
I like to play
Devil’s Advocate…
Please don’t let that
upset you! |
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12:36 pm August 3, 2009
| melluvsmike25
Member
| | Shelbyville TN |
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| posts 48 |
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jewell said:
melluvsmike25 said:
Jewell
The judge just admitted Jackson's 2002 will into probate.
That just happened in court. What does that mean?
Yes, probate is normal for many wills…
my dads will went into probate because none of us kids were on his checking accounts, etc…
so they file it in probate ….
then the estate executors will pay the bills sell any prooerty and give everyone their money.
http://research.lawyers.com/as…..-5678.html
http://www.wa-probate.com/Inst…..te-FAQ.htm
Thanks Jewell!!!
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12:55 pm August 3, 2009
| laurenmcn817
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| | belfast ireland |
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| posts 68 |
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maybe the jacksons leaked this so it would put an end to all the conspiracy stories out there
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lmcn |
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3:49 pm August 3, 2009
| Arual1979
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| | Atlanta, Georgia |
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| posts 80 |
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The yahoo article keeps changing by the way. The last version was updated about 10 minutes ago.
Anyways, it appears that some of the figures in the court documents were redacted. This means they were marked out so they can't be read – it keeps certain things private.
“The proposed figures have been redacted from court filings so far.”
Tiis statement may just mean that the exact figures being paid ot the children and Katherine are redacted. Or, it could also mean, that all figures, including the exact ammount paid fromt he life insurance, were redacted. I wouldn't be surprised if all figures were redacted, since it is not hte public's business how much money is being paid out. So, if the ammount of payment form the life insurance as redacted, who knows what sum of money is listed there… it could say that the payout from the insurance company is $0.
Just another way to look at it…
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All truth in the long run is only common sense clarified. -Thomas Henry Huxley
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5:05 pm August 3, 2009
| ibelieveinmj
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| | Canada |
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| posts 51 |
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Although the AP reported the news of Michaels insurance being paid out, does not necessarily mean it's true. they are a more credible news source than tmz etc for sure, but who's to say that they didnt' copy the story from one of the tabloids or just fed the story???? They have been known to do that before. We havn't seen these supposed court documents if they do in fact exist, or if they do maybe we never willl. But it does seem a little suspicious considering days ago they said his life insurance hadnt been paid up to date. I do realize he probably had more than one policy, but still.
I am not going to lose all hope just yet, I still don't beleive the news regardless if it was a more credible source or not.
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6:01 pm August 3, 2009
| Tenderoni
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It was discussed in open court today and the documentation was filed. The beneficiary of the policy they are referring to was the estate. This is usually done so that estate taxes can be paid without burdening the actual assets of the estate.
As much as I know everyone wants to ignore what is right in front of them (myself included), I have been telling everyone from the start that once the probate was opened, that was it. I also told you all that she could be paid from the estate as early as today (and it's retroactive to his death). I also told you all that the policy was cashed in and they were awaiting payment. This is all in court filings (and many times these documents are redacted and are supported by sworn testimony in the form of an affidavit).
And, yes, insurance companies pay out quickly (usually), with a pending death certificate, and even in suicide in some cases. The only issue might be double indemnity (if accidental), which the estate could file for a supplemental claim later. They do NOT have to wait for a complete investigation—many deaths in the world are NEVER solved (unsolved murder, for example). And a payout would never be “$0″….they would deny the claim.
I think everyone needs to move in a different direction. Too many people have testified verbally and in writings that he has died in order to pursue the estate. Too many people would go to jail at this point, including KATHERINE and I stand by my statement that MJ would NEVER do that to his mother–or even put her in the position of it being a POSSIBILITY that she is arrested.
I was holding out a little hope after some convincing information came out that might support him being alive, but it's gone too far now. I am just as sad as everyone else, but it's not the “media” telling you these things–the evidence is right there if you want to go to the courthouse and look it up, as the court records are not sealed (yet).
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6:50 pm August 3, 2009
| Hope
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| | no wares ville North Carolina |
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| posts 203 |
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TMz didnt report it yet, there is still hope.
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“You Must Belive Beyond What You Are Told, Never Take News As Is, And, Question Everything” |
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