Michael Jackson Hoax Death

I smell it too and the longer this goes on the stronger it gets

Good question.

Also, what about Norcan [sp?] – it's a drug used for people who have overdoses, if they stop breathing, or their heart stops beating a shot of that will revive them in minutes.
Not sure how reliable that is but Deepak Chopra said that it was a common thing for people to keep around people who have frequent overdoses. Now I'm not saying I think Michael is a junkie because I know someone on here is a recovering/recovered addict (it's in another thread) and they said that he can still be a good, attentive father and an addict at the same time – for my personal opinion I don't think he's a hardcore junkie like the media is portraying him to be.
The supposed cocktail alone could probably kill a horse let alone a human being, so I don't see how he could be taking so many different drugs at any one time and not be dead or at least like pete doherty/amy winehouse constantly stoned/high, esp when the drugs conflict with one another.  

Norcan might be the brand name or the actual name but it's supposed to be commonplace around overdose victims.

Shikster said:

Another.Part.Of.Me said:

Good question.

Also, what about Norcan [sp?] – it's a drug used for people who have overdoses, if they stop breathing, or their heart stops beating a shot of that will revive them in minutes.
Not sure how reliable that is but Deepak Chopra said that it was a common thing for people to keep around people who have frequent overdoses. Now I'm not saying I think Michael is a junkie because I know someone on here is a recovering/recovered addict (it's in another thread) and they said that he can still be a good, attentive father and an addict at the same time – for my personal opinion I don't think he's a hardcore junkie like the media is portraying him to be.
The supposed cocktail alone could probably kill a horse let alone a human being, so I don't see how he could be taking so many different drugs at any one time and not be dead or at least like pete doherty/amy winehouse constantly stoned/high, esp when the drugs conflict with one another.  

Norcan might be the brand name or the actual name but it's supposed to be commonplace around overdose victims.

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Exactly

They've been playing us for a long time with the inconsistencies and 'reports' from 'unnamed sources' which keep coming out.

There was something else too, but I've forgotten what it's called but it common around people under anesthetic where an alarm goes off the heart beat goes below a certain point to warn people that the patient's heart is stopping so they can revive them, administer oxygen and whatever - and it should be known to and used by a cardiologist if they're putting someone under and also be commonplace.
Also, why would Conrad Murray stash drugs in his own closet? And then direct the police to it when they don't find it first time round?

Nothing makes sense. O what tangled web we weave.

lovelidae said:

I know, I was wondering why oxygen tanks but no EKG machine. Why didn't they hire a nurse to watch his vitals during the night.

Like we've said before, these things do not add up.

That's the one, EKG machine! I knew I wasn't going mad lol.

Why not hire a nurse to watch the vitals, and why say that Dr Murray had injected him at 11:30am if the heart beat was gone? What/who exactly was he injecting? Who in their right mind puts someone under in that deep a 'sleep' and then falls asleep themself? Did he live in that house? Did he come in the morning, stay during the day then leave at night after administering a dangerous substance? 

I think the most repeated line on this forum is 'these things do not add up' because they don't.

We have a personal defib at my work, and I don't work in the medical field. I see no reason for a cardiologist not to carry one when he's been hired as a personal doctor. It's been reported somewhere, sometime that Dr. Murray would not let anyone defib him, not at the house or in the ambulance or at the hospital.

This has to be a hoax because if what is being reported is true, Dr. Murray is the most incompetant, inept, bumbling doctor in the world. He'd have to be drunk, seriously. To be so stupid as to anesthisize your client and not have a heart moniter and personal defib on hand, leave him alone for hours under sedation, return to a dead man, perform CPR on a dead man for 30 minutes, not call 911, and then refuse to let EMTs zap the crap out of him as soon as they arrive… come on.

bec said:

We have a personal defib at my work, and I don't work in the medical field. I see no reason for a cardiologist not to carry one when he's been hired as a personal doctor. It's been reported somewhere, sometime that Dr. Murray would not let anyone defib him, not at the house or in the ambulance or at the hospital.

This has to be a hoax because if what is being reported is true, Dr. Murray is the most incompetant, inept, bumbling doctor in the world. He'd have to be drunk, seriously. To be so stupid as to anesthisize your client and not have a heart moniter and personal defib on hand, leave him alone for hours under sedation, return to a dead man, perform CPR on a dead man for 30 minutes, not call 911, and then refuse to let EMTs zap the crap out of him as soon as they arrive… come on.

What is the effect of using a defibrillator on a waxwork dummy/mannequin? Does it melt esp with that high a voltage?
i have seen defibs everywhere, in school nurse's offices', workplaces/offices, on planes etc. It makes no sense that he wouldn't have one there, even a small portable one that he could carry around in his car for emergencies.

There is a thread somewhere on here which follows the theory that the drugs found at the house were for Murray and not Michael Jackson, it's an interesting read.

bec said:

I think… they did the switch to a dummy at the hospital, hense the no zapping at the home or in the ambulance.

But then how would they get the dummy to the hospital? Seems an unecessary complication. I'd be much easier to send a dummy with the EMTs… or maybe not. Depends on how realistic this dummy was I guess.

Or, maybe Dr. Murray was afraid the dummy would catch on fire from the defib. Lol!

Rofl! That would be a funny sight, I wonder how much that pic would sell for - I'm in a slightly morbid frame of mind atm.

The dummy question doesn't really work although we don't really know officially either way; so maybe the body double theory, even so, if there was an actual human being on the stretcher/bed then there is no reason why a defib shouldn't be used.

And also, shouldn't paramedics be able to over-rule a hack doctor if he's talking rubbish and 'getting in the way' of them doing their jobs? Surely there must be some provision in US law that allows paramedics to work on a patient without interference – regardless of whether or not the doctor has a higher authority.  

TinkerBell said:

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Rofl! That would be a funny sight, I wonder how much that pic would sell for - I'm in a slightly morbid frame of mind atm.

The dummy question doesn't really work although we don't really know officially either way; so maybe the body double theory, even so, if there was an actual human being on the stretcher/bed then there is no reason why a defib shouldn't be used.

And also, shouldn't paramedics be able to over-rule a hack doctor if he's talking rubbish and 'getting in the way' of them doing their jobs? Surely there must be some provision in US law that allows paramedics to work on a patient without interference – regardless of whether or not the doctor has a higher authority.  

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The physician must be a California licensed health care professional in order to assist emergency workers at the scene.

Because Dr. Murry is NOT a California licensed doctor he has no rights at any medical scene in California or even to practice medicine here or give medical advice. That is California law.

So in this case him being a doctor did not place him at higher authority over the paramedics that arrived on scene. Once the paramedics arrived, the patient then became their full responsibility.

Thanks for putting that here Tink, this is exactly what I thought when I first heard the story. How can a doctor, or private physician over-rule EMTs and paramedics who arrive in an ambulance to help someone? It just didn't make sense to me at all.
I'm 100% sure they can't do that in the UK, but I wasn't too sure about in the States. Thanks for clearing it up.

If the stories are to be believed (which they aren't) Dr Murray basically made a nuisance of himself, getting in everyone's way and not letting the paramedics do their jobs properly, especially when he isn't even licensed to practise in California in the first place.

Great post BEC-  All I know is that Dr Murray must have been paid a GAZILLION $$$ to participate in a hoax, that makes him look like a super dooper idiot !!   Because now he can officially call his medical career over !!

Shikster, you always post thought provoking things, good find yet again!

I hope not all docs in the US are like Conrad Murray, hes the most bumbling doctor Ive ever known! Honestly I would even trust him looking after an MJ mannequin!!

So many questions, and not enough answers! When are we ever going to hear from this doctor, has somebody cut out his tongue?

Reflection said:

Post edited 6:24 am – August 3, 2009 by Reflection

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- Maybe he does/did have one but didn't use it.

- Or he may be a very bad cardiologist and doesn't/didn't have one (at hand); at least not a working one, especially if he was in debt.

- Or maybe he isn't a real cardiologist at all.

Regarding the emergency 911 operator, it's pretty much the same for me…

- Maybe he was new or especially bad at his job or maybe he wasn't a real 911 operator at all.

For me, the question is: Why?

If I wanted to pull this off and disappear, I would want to make it appear as realistic as possible.

Again, two possible explanations I can think of:

- The people involved made (many, many…) mistakes.

- There is another plan and everything went just like it was supposed to.

Apparently, and it really wouldn't surprise me at all – Dr Murray killed a patient on the operating table, so his level of incompetence is astounding. I don't think he was a real doctor because I cannot see how someone would get through so many years of Med School (and Pass!) to end up being as pathetically incompetent as that.
If I had a heart problem, or any sort of problem for that matter, I would run in the opposite direction rather than let Murray touch me.

The 911 operator? Don't they go through training, and I'd imagine very rigorous training to deal with phone calls and don't they have to follow certain protocols?
I volunteered at an advisory service and they train you first before letting you anywhere near the phone switchboard. Even as a newbie you are expected to follow certain protocols and deal with callers effectively. I can't imagine that a 911 operator who has such an important job to do – literally life and death – would be so incompetent. If he was a new or inexperienced operator I'd hope he gets the sack because he's rubbish at his job. I'm thinking a plant or fake to make people think that it's real.